Kil'Jaeden...

[Raptace]

I know we've been on this for a bit here, but if you look at this video. I talked about before about us grouping up to get the dragon buffs then jumping back out. In this video they do it perfect. I think we should be doing this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3LC1rCp9hE

[Nortibiry]

It kind of looks like.... exactly what we have been doing. At least the collapse around the 4:00 minute mark which is about where my patience for the video ran out :) Is there any other specific point I should check out?

[Raptace]

I know its the same strat that we are using. The specific part I was talking about was when the Dragon first comes out, and they all collapse into one point then go back and spread out.. this can be seen at
3mins 30secs-3mins 45secs
6mins 5secs-6mins 20secs

I think we could get the most out of things if we did it this way.

[attic]

Also, if anyone is threat capped we should look at having Kastus DPS-tank

[Tierran]

Threat is kinda an issue for me, without the tank modifiers Phewl is going to have a harder time keeping aggro. Last night I was waiting until he hit 90% before I started DPS, aside from keeping a 5 stack of sunders up. Even then around 50% I was getting closer to Phewl than anyone else, and I'm not sure when he shifts to someone in Melee. I guess I'd have to be 110% of Phewl's threat? If so then I should be ok I think.

[Raptace]

My dps has been fuckin terrible since the patch. I'm sure it will continue to be that way for awhile, not sure what I'm doing wrong but its horrible.

[phewl]

my threat is gunna be 2000-4500 threat per 1.2 sec at the start. that is totally based off whether i crit(4000+), miss(0) or regular hit(2000). Searing pain did not get uber buffed like everyone elses classes did! So it's just like it used to be where you have to give some room for random stuff at the start. But after I get to 50K-100k threat it doesnt look like anyone has a chance of catching me(if everything goes well i can sometimes double you guys). And when you are coming close later on its usually because i have stopped attacking KJ in favour of trying to help kill orbs etc or have to move around alot. If threat is an issue i could stay on KJ the whole time but it seemed like i had a handle on it for all the later parts of the fight. And when we are near the end of the fight in the 400-500K threat range, remember you can go up to almost 1.1 threat as me if your melee, so that gives you up to 35-45K safely ahead of me if im not on top of it due to running or helping with orbs.

[Nortibiry]

I've been trying to remember to throw vigilance up on Tierran which should help him at least. Also although the horrible techno enrages me thanks for posting the video, that's what prompted me to push towards primarily using half the room which I think has put us on the right track for this one.

I think all that really got us last night was a bit of a 20% freakout which happens... if we keep things under control and kill the adds we should be in decent shape.

[Vand]

This whole threat issue is due in large part to the removal of BoS from a fight that was designed for it. I wonder if we'll be seeing any more mage/warlock tanking fights in Wrath?

[Xyriin]

Have a side question slightly off the main topic line...

How much damage do the reflections do and if it isn't that much is it viable to just have a tank or two hold them until KJ is dead so phase 5 turns into a single dps target?

[Assault]

Judging from this parse (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?a=Gxf13000639e000d31#break) it looks like in over the course of the whole night, Xyriin is head and shoulders above everyone else in dealing damage to the shield orbs. If Xyriin has a theory as to what he's doing right that other people are not doing, I'd love to hear it.

Is Xyriin standing in the "sweet spot" so his damage vs. orbs is more a function of his positioning than his play? Does he have a macro or addon to help him that he could share with others? I can't say that ranged dps is my strong suit, so I don't really have any ideas, but Xyriin is definitely doing something right here.

Here is the parse (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?s=552344-611436&a=Gxf13000639e000dac#break) for damage vs. orbs strictly on the last attempt (which was the best). I welcome input from anyone.

Here is the report (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?a=Gxf13000646c000989#break) for damage vs. the sinister reflections over the whole night, while this is the report (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?s=552344-611436&a=Gxf13000646c000da6#break) for damage vs. the sinister reflections on only the last attempt.

It does seem that some people excel more at the reflections while others excel at the shield orbs. I don't see a major problem with this; a division of labor is fine. I'd still like to hear potential strategies from the people who do well at either one, though.

[Vand]

In terms of damage done to the orbs, I think the biggest single thing that moved me from near the bottom of the pack at the beginning of the night to near the top of the pack by the end was respeccing during the break to fire, which has a 20% longer range than frost. I mention this because if there are any range talents people have not taken, they help a whole lot against the orbs.

One question I have about the reflections is whether it would make sense to keep them all together for AoE purposes? Most ranged classes now have decent AoE, and being able to simultaneously damage all 4 might see them dying significantly faster than they are now.

[Nortibiry]

In terms of damage done to the orbs, I think the biggest single thing that moved me from near the bottom of the pack at the beginning of the night to near the top of the pack by the end was respeccing during the break to fire, which has a 20% longer range than frost. I mention this because if there are any range talents people have not taken, they help a whole lot against the orbs.

One question I have about the reflections is whether it would make sense to keep them all together for AoE purposes? Most ranged classes now have decent AoE, and being able to simultaneously damage all 4 might see them dying significantly faster than they are now.

We originally started splitting them up so that all the ranged DPS in the raid could reach them, as opposed to only the half where they are. I'm not sure if this is as significant or still required now that we're more tightly packed?

In a few cases (caster classes and paladin adds) it is also probably a good idea to spread out the damage between two tanks and use single target DPS (as it is hard to generate aoe threat on mobs standing 20 yards away from each other slinging spells at you).

[Vand]

Given that the "few cases" Nort described probably represent about half the classes, it's probably best to be consistent and just do them all the same way. Since we're single-targeting them, is there any way we could get marks to facilitate focus fire? Or are marks not possible due to them being put on the people who get fire bloom?

[Nortibiry]

Have a side question slightly off the main topic line...

How much damage do the reflections do and if it isn't that much is it viable to just have a tank or two hold them until KJ is dead so phase 5 turns into a single dps target?

I'm no WWS expert but it looks like maybe they were healing KJ, so this may depend on the class that gets the last call. If it is protection warrior I think offtanking would be an option (although in that case the adds die very quickly as well), if it is a caster or healer class I think killing the adds is the way to go.

WWS (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?s=552344-611436&a=Gxf13000646c000da6#break)

[Xyriin]

I'm not really doing anything special for the shield orbs. To be honest I don't even use a macro for them and don't have any points in Hawk Eye so sitting at the base 35yd range. I pretty much just throw dps at KJ and have my camera tilted up a bit (see the bottom edge of the orbs when they're up). When I see an orb I click it to target and spam dps until my range indicator turns red then switch back to KJ. Fortunately this is a fire and forget fight for my pet other than when Darkness goes off so no pet management to distract me most of the time.

The single orbs spawn in my range so that does help some, but the second orb spawn point is almost out of my range, and the third is way out my range so not completely sure how that will skew the damage. In addition, I have dragon duty so that will limit some dps time as well on some attempts.

[Wenge]

Assault, as I tried to tell you repeatedly, the orbs initially spawn on the northish side of the room. If they go counterclockwise, which is almost always, they will be dead by the time they reach the 9, and are just coming in range for me, because I stand down by the 6. I have had them die during a cast.

Xyriin is on the exact opposite side where they spawn all the time.

Also the parse doesn't account for who is piloting a dragon.

[Mithwen]

I dunno, I'm a little unsure about the spawn point and range thing on the shield orbs. Certainly they seem to spawn up near me, but later in the fight when things get hectic there's orbs near the collapse point too. Anyway, I have range issues but I hit em... I'm surprised I'd do decent damage on them since I'd think they'd be dead before my dots could tick for much ... but I try to get at least a dot on em as they go by.

I don't do so well on the Sinister Reflections. That's mostly because I'm one of those ranged casters without a useful aoe. I concentrate on the reflections when it's a priest or paladin and kind of ignore them otherwise because they seem to be half dead by the time they're in range of me. I also try to get dispels off on the priests (although that's less important now that we're single targeting).

P

[Raptace]

Assault, as I tried to tell you repeatedly, the orbs initially spawn on the northish side of the room. If they go counterclockwise, which is almost always, they will be dead by the time they reach the 9, and are just coming in range for me, because I stand down by the 6. I have had them die during a cast.

Xyriin is on the exact opposite side where they spawn all the time.

Also the parse doesn't account for who is piloting a dragon.

I'm right by Wenge, same applies for me.

[Assault]

Did I not specifically mention that possibility in my post, Wenge? I can't fathom why you would take it so personally. Grow a thicker skin.

[Nortibiry]

Assault, as I tried to tell you repeatedly, the orbs initially spawn on the northish side of the room. If they go counterclockwise, which is almost always, they will be dead by the time they reach the 9, and are just coming in range for me, because I stand down by the 6. I have had them die during a cast.

Xyriin is on the exact opposite side where they spawn all the time.

Also the parse doesn't account for who is piloting a dragon.

Is it possible to stack this part of the raid with ranged DPS who have more range, instant attacks, or are otherwise best suited to nuke orbs fast?

[Raptace]

I'm fully willing to move or be where ever I need to be, where ever you guys want me. The only issue that I see with that is that is that like for instance that one reflection that was still up on that last attempt. I know there is a lot going on but I dps'd my ass off trying to kill that thing. I used a healthstone, my one potion, a healing one, and flame dart ended up killing me but w/e side I'm on seems to be real weak and killing those reflections, sometimes they just seem up forever...
I will say that when Haythan put up a hunters mark I noticed the things dropping much quicker. I think especially when we have reflections that heal they need to be dropped quickly and multiple people need to be on them so they die before they can get off heals to stay alive.

[Raptace]

Judging from this parse (http://wowwebstats.com/fgxigelx3au1c?a=Gxf13000639e000d31#break) it looks like in over the course of the whole night, Xyriin is head and shoulders above everyone else in dealing damage to the shield orbs. If Xyriin has a theory as to what he's doing right that other people are not doing, I'd love to hear it.

Is Xyriin standing in the "sweet spot" so his damage vs. orbs is more a function of his positioning than his play? Does he have a macro or addon to help him that he could share with others? I can't say that ranged dps is my strong suit, so I don't really have any ideas, but Xyriin is definitely doing something right here.



I think Xyriin is in a sweet spot of sorts. At first the orbs spawn on the northish side and they come around counter clockwise and about 90% I can't even get off one spell before it is dead being where I am. But when there are multiple ones this rarely becomes an issue with the out of range, but I won't say it never happens because they are always moving.

I will honestly say that I think a huge flaw that we have is dps being spread out on adds. Orbs vs. Reflections, constantly spamming the orb macro to make sure I don't miss one. But if I'm already dpsing a reflection should I get off it to go at a orb? Usually I'll throw some dots at it then go back to the reflection but (and I don't know exactly how we should do this) but if we had a little bit more order with dpsing it might make things easier. Together we stand devided we fall.... if you will. If someone is all alone dpsing a healing reflection... they might not ever get it down, but with someone else its much easier.

[Kastus]

Reflections>Orbs>Kiljaeden>FOOD.

[Assault]

Orbs are more important to kill than reflections, methinks. The orbs do a lot more raid damage and are causing more deaths than the reflections are, and they die a lot quicker.

[Vand]

I agree with Assault. Orbs>Reflections>KJ for ranged people.