Warlock DPS increase question

[benseac]

Since I respec'd from affliction to destruction, I've noticed that my DPS has increased. However, it still hasn't increased as much as I'd like it to. I know some of this is due to a few pieces of gear I still need to improve but most of it is due to something I don't think I'm doing right.

Looking at the most recent WWS report, if I'm reading it correctly, I'm casting a lot less shadow bolts than the rest of the warlocks but seem to be using more instant DOTs, immolate and conflag. Would I better off casting an initial corruption, agony and immolate (with conflag) and using the rest of the DPS time on the mob spamming shadow bolts? With fel armor up and running I have about +1110 shadow damage with roughly an 8.5% chance to hit and approximately 18.75% chance to crit. The WWS report shows that my shadow bolts are critting at a decent rate.

I'm using Necrosis' DOT timer to try my best to keep all of the DOTs up but it seems that it would be more efficient damage-wise to do an initial round of DOTs and then spam shadow bolts, especially with the crit bonus that ruin gives me.

Thoughts or ideas?

[Wenge]

The mages may not keep 5/5 scorch (15% +fire damage) on all trash all the time; you're more likely to see 2/5 or 3/5 scorches up on trash. We (me, primarily) try to keep at 5/5 on bosses when possible.

[benseac]

The mages may not keep 5/5 scorch (15% +fire damage) on all trash all the time; you're more likely to see 2/5 or 3/5 scorches up on trash. We (me, primarily) try to keep at 5/5 on bosses when possible.[/b]

Hm... so maybe on bosses then try to keep an immolate/conflag rotation going while spamming shadow bolts? I could give it a try next time I'm raiding.

[Etrigana]

Im not a warlock and Assault will tell you bluntly that I dont know DPS, but I would start by looking at the values of your DoTs and compare them to your shadowbolt with that spec. Then, assume that each instant cast DoT is ~2/3rds of a shadowbolt and see if they are really even worth casting. DoTs may not have a cast timer, but they do incur a global cooldown. And, for me anyways, thats what I would be looking at. Are the global cooldowns worth the cast time? Can I rotate a spell that is going to do more damage over that 1.5sec or is my shadowbolt spam more effective.

After that, Id look in to calculating the vulnerabilities and chances of you proccing imp. SB debuffs and such.

-Etri

[benseac]

Im not a warlock and Assault will tell you bluntly that I dont know DPS, but I would start by looking at the values of your DoTs and compare them to your shadowbolt with that spec. Then, assume that each instant cast DoT is ~2/3rds of a shadowbolt and see if they are really even worth casting. DoTs may not have a cast timer, but they do incur a global cooldown. And, for me anyways, thats what I would be looking at. Are the global cooldowns worth the cast time? Can I rotate a spell that is going to do more damage over that 1.5sec or is my shadowbolt spam more effective.

After that, Id look in to calculating the vulnerabilities and chances of you proccing imp. SB debuffs and such.

-Etri[/b]

Thanks for the idea Etri. I'll check out the report and see what it tells me.

[benseac]

Having little actual work to do at work can be a scary thing sometimes. Anywho, I did some investigation of the report, my armory profile, my fellow warlocks' profiles and have come to some conclusions about what I could do.

First, I could ditch some of the pure +spell damage gems for +spell damage/+spell crit. At roughly 19%, I have the lowest crit rating. A few gem changes could help in that regard. Sure, I would take a hit in the spell damage department but with more crits and with the 'ruin' talent, the crits would make up for the lower +spell damage number.

Second, I should've remembered my talents a little bit better. One of the destruction talents increases shadow bolt and immolate potency based on +spell damage.

Third, keep the DOTs up isn't the way to go. Based on some number crunching, it'd be better to throw up an immolate (and conflagrate it when it's near its end) and just spam the shadow bolts.

Doing this won't put me up to some of the crazy numbers Phewl, Emily and the rest of the 0/21/40 crew put up because of the damage buff they get when sacrificing their demon. However, doing the above should help me contribute more to a mob's demise.

And before I forget, what about buffs such as wizard oil? Usually I use pots, oils and food for boss fights but not for trash. Should I be using them all the time? Sorry if it seems like a stupid question but I was curious.

[Mithwen]

I've spent the day poking at my own numbers trying to figure out how to get some better dps out of myself, so I feel your pain.

I'd add that you don't want to forget about plus hit. Remember, there's an 83% base chance to hit a raid boss, so 16% is a good chunk to make up. I'm a little suspicious of the WWS for good data about misses and such because there seems to be a variation as to whether the data even gets collected for everyone, so even if the WWS says you're doing okay with hits, I wouldn't take it at face value.

Also, since you don't seem to pvp much, you could consider taking points out of nether protection and putting them into Emberstorm. Since you've put points into insta cast corruption, it's not a huge deal to cast it ... maybe you'd want to funnel some points into suppression so that if you do cast it, it hits and you dont waste mana and a gcd recasting it. Your fire spell damage is lower than your shadow damage so using talents to increase it might help but maybe continuing to keep corruption up will help since your gear has healthy shadow damage (also I kick myself if I let shadoweaving fall under 5 stacks, so you can count on me there).

Pika.

[benseac]

I have a couple more thoughts about this topic. A few weeks back I switched back to Affliciton as, for soloing, it beats the tar out of destruction. So now I get to DOT things again to my heart's content. Looking through the WWS reports from last week, I want to get some input, as I'm trying to figure out why my damage output sucks compared to the other warlocks.

The only one I really looked at in-depth is Zhek because he is also an affliction warlock so we have comparable spells. I also took a peek at his armory because I wanted to see how much his +dmg, +hit, etc. was greater than mine. Gear-wise, we're pretty similar. He has more of everything but I'm not so far behind that I'm totally worthless.

Then I looked at the WWS report from last Tuesday to compare spells cast, damage output, and the like. Looking at the values per spell cast, we're very close. For example, my average corruption/tick was 605 whereas his was 606 (his max was 886 against my 822). Curse of Affliction was 365/769 (ave/max) for me, 369/759 for him. Siphon Life was 275/364 for me and 264/366 for him. There are some differences I see which I'm going to test out, namely, casting more shadowbolts as opposed to immolates, as that seems to account for a decent damage discrepency. Since my +shadow dmg is a bit greater than my +fire dmg, it would probably be worth it to stick to the shadow bolts.

What I noticed about the DOTs I listed above was that he is casting a ton more than I am. I had 810 corruption DOTs, whereas he had 1020. Curse of agony ticked 1014 times for me as opposed to 1621 for him. Siphon Life ticked 633 for me and 919 for him. I keep a pretty good watch on my DOT timer and try to keep them as active as possible.

I'm wondering if I should be casting DOTs on more than just the main target. For example, if there are two mobs being tanked, should I DOT up the main one as well as the other one being tanked? Or is there something else I'm not doing that would help me get DOTs out more often?

I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong here. Stats-wise, my gear should be plenty to contribute helpful damage output. I'm fairly successful at keeping up all my DOTs on the main mob (or boss) and, while I certainly am not the best warlock to ever play the game, I think I have a good handle on the class. It's somewhat frustrating because I don't want to feel like I'm being dead weight when I asked to sub in on raid night.

[phewl]

definately dotting more then 1 mob at a time if they are being actively tanked will increase your trash dps, or on boss fights with other adds near enough to dot without wasting time(summoned pet on karathress). but for more accurate information i would look at individual boss fights seperated from trash and other bosses. Also some fights you will have to put into some thought on your dot durations to avoid pulling aggro on transitions and phase changes with aggro drops, i notice you died on leo, but id assume no one really briefed you on that as we were going for quick clears.

You seem to be pretty comparable to zhek on straightforward single target dps fights like lurker, but on fights that have more targets to dot like karathress and alar he seems to be dotting alot more. Also i would definately put priority on shadowbolting over immolating, but ive read that keeping immolate in the rotation when mobility isnt a issue is good. You might also want to beef up your +spell hit, affliction locks still get a big chunk of their damage from shadowbolts, which dont benefit from your affliction talent for +hit. I think what most do is when they have good enough gear that also has good +spell hit, they start switching points out of suppression and rely more on gear +hit.

Also little things like putting priority on shadowbolting when theres stuff making it buffed going on, for example if you have 2 piece tier 4 and it procs, keep using shadow stuff rather then immo if the shadow buff is going. Or if you get heroism maybe start spamming shadowbolt more, making use of spells that have cast times reduced while its up(instant cant get any faster etc.).

As always watch your dot timers intensley and dont re apply until its wore off to maximize dps. Use CoD over CoA if the mob will live gauranteed 1 min. Make sure you using as much consumables as everyone else(that would easily put you behind), you can get +70dmg, +23dmg, +40dmg from using your consumables. If your in attics group, make sure your keeping close to his godly totems, maybe ask where he plans to hang out during the fight.

I think the biggest difference your seeing between your dps is from dotting multiple targets though, and possibly him being more relaxed and used to farming the fights. And i think you will find it most valuable to look at the WWS sheets broke down fight by fight.

I'm no expert on affliction locks though, so if anyone else wants to correct me or add to something, please do.

goodluck trying to pew pew harder xaan.

[phewl]

just looked at your armory and i would say if your raiding as affliction you definately gotta swtich that sextant trinket with another +dmg one or id even say the trinket with like 32 spell hit and use: some +dmg. that would give you alot more %hit to make up for the missed shadowbolts that your getting, and you would still get the controllable +dmg proc. Id also maybe switch the gem in your bracer to a +8spell shit or a veiled noble topaz(+4hit +5dmg), maybe the 6stam and 5dmg one in your chest too, but i assume thats in there cause its the only thing to give the gem bonus. Also that gem with stamina in the belt of blasting, id get something like a veiled noble in there.

[benseac]

just looked at your armory and i would say if your raiding as affliction you definately gotta swtich that sextant trinket with another +dmg one or id even say the trinket with like 32 spell hit and use: some +dmg. that would give you alot more %hit to make up for the missed shadowbolts that your getting, and you would still get the controllable +dmg proc. Id also maybe switch the gem in your bracer to a +8spell shit or a veiled noble topaz(+4hit +5dmg), maybe the 6stam and 5dmg one in your chest too, but i assume thats in there cause its the only thing to give the gem bonus. Also that gem with stamina in the belt of blasting, id get something like a veiled noble in there.[/b]

I defnitely need a different trinket, for sure. Up until last night, I had 2 +crit trinkets but was able to get enough badges to get the nifty heroic one before the raid. I'll take a look at my gems because I could switch some stuff around the help with this.

[benseac]

Zhek

What's your typical spell cast rotation?

[Zhek]

Ua, corruption. theis 2 are cast at the same time so that its like manageing one dot instead of 2. they will both have the same timer because there will be no gcl to deal with after the Ua. then agony, then siphon, shadowbolts til ua is getting to about 2 seconds and re-apply both, the other 2 as they come towards their end.

and i wouldent worry to much about trash dps at all cus nobody really cares. i usualy try to play more laid back on things that we have on farm as well, as to not die and fuck it up. but on like.... kael or vashj or something push it as hard as you can go when it comes down to the strat being burn as fast as you can.

ummmm gear and spec shit. ive got points in some places that dont lend themselfs to my own playing, but make the tank take less damage, have more health. so that hurts me a little bit. and i really miss the instant aoe fear but its not killing the raid that i dont have it. so shmeh. crit is nice but i focus on +damage and hit wherever possible. once i get a bit more hit i plan to use either the trinket from ZA or the crusade card instead of my scryer bloodgem but before sacraficeing any +hit for damage.... ummmm i dont know i try not to stress it to bad, i havent crunched any numbers or anything i just know imolate doesent do much damage when i cast it so i dont. and yeah i dot evry trash mob that isnt being cc'ed but thats more to stave off boredom then anything else. maby in hyjal or any other new content it will matter but for now its just me being bored.

oh and if you want my opinion on something its probobly better to ask me in game, cus this is the first time i have read the forums in like a month and a half.

zomg count my grammer and spelling mistakes.

[Etrigana]

oh and if you want my opinion on something its probobly better to ask me in game, cus this is the first time i have read the forums in like a month and a half.[/b]

Hatred...boiling....over...inside...

-Etri

[benseac]

Revisiting again because I hate sucking at this game...

Looking through the WWS reports and reading through some of earlier comments, I have a question (mainly for Zhek as we're both affliction but others can definitely chime in). You said for your spell rotation, you mentioned UA then corruption followed by Agony then siphon life. Looking at the reports from last night and the night before, it seems to me that you're forgoing using any curses such as agony or doom on boss fights and concentrating more on shadow bolts.

I didn't see it in the WWS reports but is this due to you using CoS, CoR, etc.?

I ask because I see my shadow bolt count is way lower than everyone elses (I do question the report that said I only cast 6 of them in one of the fights) and am wondering if it's because I'm casting CoA/CoD.

[Zhek]

i have maladiction now so im handleing curse of shadows

[benseac]

i have maladiction now so im handleing curse of shadows

Ah, ok.

[Raptace]

yeah, the multiple target thing is something that has to be done, zhek dots up everything in sight pretty much from what I'm seeing, anything being tanked, he has dots on all the time.

[Nortibiry]

yeah, the multiple target thing is something that has to be done, zhek dots up everything in sight pretty much from what I'm seeing, anything being tanked, he has dots on all the time.

And anything with dots on it has to be tanked... but anything that's tanked gets dots... but anything with dots has to be tanked...

[Mithwen]

And anything with dots on it has to be tanked... but anything that's tanked gets dots... but anything with dots has to be tanked...

But we all win when Zhek dies. :D

Pika.

[Raptace]

LOL Pika. And true enough Nort, I can't imagine the hell you live in when it comes to dots.

[Zhek]

Im really confused about weither i should be pleased with myself or be insulted.