Flame Strike

[Vand]

I am abandoning arcane once 2.3 hits, which means next raid (assuming Bliz doesn't push it back). Due to my spellfire robe being the only robe I have, I cannot even consider frost. I know full well that the 10/48/3 build gives the highest dps and mana efficiency in single-target situations. However, a huge part of the reason Etri brings four mages to the raid is because of AoE. AoE is critical in Phase 2 of the KT fight, and with both Chasidy and I abandoning arcane, our total AoE dps will be substantially lower next week.

That got me wondering about flamestrike spam. If you plug the numbers into Lhivera's Theorcraft Script (http://tc.awenet.com/index.php), flamestrike spam comes out just a little lower dps than arcane explosion spam for a 10/48/3 build, and with much better DPM. However, if instead of a 10/48/3 spec, I took a build that included improved flame strike, that massive +15% crit would definitely put the dps over arcane explosion (especially considering that a fire crit is 210% damage compared with 150% damage for an arcane crit). Such a high crit rate rate would almost guarantee that every flamestrike cast would get a 30% mana refund from Master of Elements, greatly improving DPM.

I have two primary concerns about this. My first concern is the lower range of flamestrike (5-yard radius) compared with arcane explosion (10-yard radius). Do you think the weapons are clustered close enough to all be hit by flamestrike?

My second concern is TPS. Strangely enough, Lhivera's script shows a lower TPS for flamestrike spam than for arcane explosion spam. I cannot see how that can be correct, however, since a 10/48/3 build includes a 40% threat reduction for arcane spells. But maybe one of you knows something I do not that would give flamestrike spam a lower TPS. Assuming the script is bugged, do you think that our tanks have enough threat on the weapons to withstand a substantially higher TPS from the AoEers, considering that we're killing the bow first? Maybe the fact that the locks aren't drawing aggro answers this question.

The only thing that a flamestrike build would give up vs. a 10/48/3 build would be clearcasting. But my sense is that Pika returns enough mana to make clearcasting not strictly necessary. Do you guys agree?

[Wenge]

I have two primary concerns about this. My first concern is the lower range of flamestrike (5-yard radius) compared with arcane explosion (10-yard radius). Do you think the weapons are clustered close enough to all be hit by flamestrike?[/b]

It seems to. I switch between chaining flamestrike and arc exp depending on how close (in particular) the staff and the axe are from the others. Generally, the shield, daggers, and sword are all close enough for FS to hit. Blast wave is better than arc ex, to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vand)</div>Do you think that our tanks have enough threat on the weapons to withstand a substantially higher TPS from the AoEers[/b]

I haven't pulled aggro except for when I counterspelled the staff.

The only thing that a flamestrike build would give up vs. a 10/48/3 build would be clearcasting. But my sense is that Pika returns enough mana to make clearcasting not strictly necessary. Do you guys agree?[/b]

You could probably drop to 4/5 or even 3/5 clearcasting, or look at your +hit and drop points on elemental precision.
I caution you against optimizing for a given group composition though.

[Vand]

I was playing around with possible talent builds and came up with another alternative that allowed me to get improved flamestrike and keep 5/5 clearcasting. What I sacrificed was 1 point in incineration (-2% crit on fire blast and scorch...neither of which make up a very big percentage of total damage), and dragon's breath (although it's the 41-point fire talent, I rarely used it during raids because its conical nature makes it difficult to hit everything you need to). I could also take 4/5 clearcasting to take dragon's breath.

[Wenge]

DB hits all the AoE weapons, I did it all the time last night. I also use DB to save lives in 5-mans.

[Vand]

DB hits all the AoE weapons, I did it all the time last night.[/b]
Even the axe?

[Assault]

For what it's worth, I strongly doubt you'd pull aggro with aoe. I typically hit blade flurry/adrenaline rush/trinket shortly before the aoe starts and I rarely pull aggro with that, which is far more damage on my second target than anyone is going to be doing to any single target while aoeing.

[Vand]

I respecced with improved flame strike as planned. I wanted to experiment with flame strike spam and then check WWS to see if it was working. I also convinced Wenge that flame strike spam could be a great alternative to arcane explosion spam because it is so much more mana efficient. I forgot to start my combat log last night, so I extended the experiment to tonight. Once I loaded the combat log into WWS, I got quite a surprise.

Tonight, Wenge and I both had a total AoE damage of about 270,000 each. Chasidy kept doing AE spam, and had a total AoE damage of 760,000. So she did much more than both Wenge and I combined! The reason that flame strike just does not work well is its small range. With all the mayhem that goes on around the weapons during the AoE period, I could not really tell whether I was hitting everything I wanted (especially with ignite tick numbers from my last blast wave popping up at the same time), but WWS showed me unequivocally that I was not.

I just respecced out of improved flame strike and put those points into arcane impact, which gives a +6% crit bonus to arcane explosion and arcane blast (which is my main nuke in the Al'ar fight). If Wenge and I start doing the same AoE damage as Chasidy did tonight, we'll have more than a million extra damage, or an average of almost 200k per attempt where we complete Phase 2. That will make Phase 2 go much smoother.

Etri, here is what you asked for...an example of how WWS can improve performance.

[Vand]

I just looked at the WWS report that Rora posted (thanks Rora!) to look at the Solarian fight to see how my flamestrike (FS) spam worked there, since the Solarium Agents are grouped much more tightly than the KT weapons. Chasidy only spammed arcane explosion (AE), and got 134k damage against the agents; Wenge did about half AE spam and half FS spam, and got 125k; and I spammed only FS, and got 110k.

My theory about FS spam being more mana efficient due to interaction with master of elements is correct. I got 6700 mana back from MoE, whereas Chasidy got 2900. So that means that my flamestrike spam returned an extra 3800 mana over what Chasidy got from her fireball spam against Solarian. That's a pretty big difference considering the fact that the fight only lasts four minutes.

Bottom line: AE is the best AoE spam for DPS by a pretty wide margin, even for a fire spec. I am going to stop using FS unless we get to some fight where mana efficiency is more important than AoE DPS.

As for talents, I really think the extra 6% crit on AE from Arcane Impact will deliver more total damage than I lose from losing the 4% crit that incinerate gives to scorch and fire blast, considering the fact that half of the TK fights have major AoE components, and most (if not all) of the MH trash waves we're about to be dealing with also depend on AoE.

[Wenge]

Tonight, Wenge and I both had a total AoE damage of about 270,000 each. Chasidy kept doing AE spam, and had a total AoE damage of 760,000.[/b]

Note that I'm not AoEing the entire part of phase 2; generally I'm trying to put some damage up on the shield and axe so they die quickly into phase 3.

[Vand]

Note that I'm not AoEing the entire part of phase 2; generally I'm trying to put some damage up on the shield and axe so they die quickly into phase 3.[/b]
You have a good point, Wenge. However, my basic premise about AM being much better than FB remains. In fact, I just added up all the damage Chasidy did to all the weapons excluding the bow last night, and it was still more than you did. If you include the bow, she pulls out way ahead. I am not trying to say that you should change the basic strategy you are pursuing, just that AM is a much better spell than FB for when you are AoEing.

I am not trying to say to use AM exclusively for AoEing, just as the spam spell when blast wave and dragon's breath (assuming you can hit enough things with it) on are CD.

What I will be doing tonight is standing between the axe and the other weapons (far enough not to get killed by the axe but close enough to include it in my AoE) and cast blast wave and AE. I will face away from the axe towards the other weapons so that I can hit them with DB, as long as at least three of the others are still up. Once the mace and staff die, however, DB will no longer be worth the opportunity cost of an AE that will also hit the axe.