Lot of Thought [Archive] - Fulcrum Forums

Assault

08-16-2007, 10:00 PM

Our guild ranking on www.wowjutsu.com has gone from a peak inside the top 1000 to currently 1146. I mention this not because I care about our guild ranking per se, but because this shows just how many guilds have made progress in the past several weeks while we have remained stagnant. I assume everyone is trying to fulfill their utmost potential on every fight, but I want to impress upon everyone just how important it is to tweak your game for every boss fight, even in between wipes. For example, here's what I do during the Hydross fight: (And it's not really important to read this since it only applies to..me.)

On the pull I sneak up to the furthest of the original adds, cheapshot it and get it up to 5 combo points as I'm dragging it toward Hydross. I burn a 5 point slice and dice on it, kill it and kill any other adds around me.

Now I go to Hydross. I start DPSing him if Seld has a minimum of 10k threat according to Omen. If he has less than this much threat I may start DPSing, throwing feint into the rotation every time it's up. If he has 12k or more threat I go all out. I burn my <a class='forumitemlink' target='_blank' href='http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=29383&locale=enUS'> <tr> <td valign=\'top\' class=\'itemicon\'> <img class=\'itemicon\' src=\'http://wow.allakhazam.com/images/icons/INV_Misc_MonsterScales_15.png\'> </td> <td> <body><div class=\'wowitem wowitemlive\'><span class=\'iname\'><span class=\'purplename\'>Bloodlust Brooch</span>
Binds when picked up
Unique
TrinketMiscellaneous
Requires*Level*70
Equip: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=15821\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 72.</a>*
Use: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=35166\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 278 for 20 seconds.</a>*
</div> </td> </tr></table>',VAUTO,HAUTO,FULLHTML);" onmouseout="return nd();">[Bloodlust Brooch]</span></a> and Adrenaline Rush here. Of course I refresh slice and dice when it's ready, unless we're just about to change phases. Also, during every frost phase, I keep my finger hovered over my vanish key. This is so I can vanish if he targets me for a water tomb, saving me and all the melee around me 4 seconds in a water tomb. This maneuver is very difficult to pull off, however; I've only successfully done it a few times.

As we transition into poison phase, I continue normal DPS (other than refreshing slice and dice) until the tank pulls him close to the changeover point. At that point I keep whatever combo points I have on him, hit escape to stop my auto-attack, and run to where the front left add will probably spawn. As soon as the add spawns, I burn my combo points on Hydross with a slice and dice and start attacking the add, being ready to kidney shot it if it targets anyone besides Nortibiry. I continue onto Jyynx's add then to Hydross. Once I get onto Hydross, I hit Blade Flurry and my <a class='forumitemlink' target='_blank' href='http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28288&locale=enUS'> <tr> <td valign=\'top\' class=\'itemicon\'> <img class=\'itemicon\' src=\'http://wow.allakhazam.com/images/icons/INV_Misc_EngGizmos_18.png\'> </td> <td> <body><div class=\'wowitem wowitemlive\'><span class=\'iname\'><span class=\'bluename\'>Abacus of Violent Odds</span>
Binds when picked up
Unique
TrinketMiscellaneous
Requires*Level*70
Equip: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=15817\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 64.</a>*
Use: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=33807\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases haste rating by 260 for 10 seconds.</a>*
</div> </td> </tr></table>',VAUTO,HAUTO,FULLHTML);" onmouseout="return nd();">[Abacus of Violent Odds]</span></a> and try to position myself to blade flurry any of the two remaining adds that may be near Hydross. I also hit Cloak of Shadows if he hits me with his poison bolt dot.

As we transition back to frost phase, I do the same thing as before. Keep DPSing until he's close to the spot where he switches, then back off and go to where the add is going to spawn. This time on Hydross I can use my <a class='forumitemlink' target='_blank' href='http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=29383&locale=enUS'> <tr> <td valign=\'top\' class=\'itemicon\'> <img class=\'itemicon\' src=\'http://wow.allakhazam.com/images/icons/INV_Misc_MonsterScales_15.png\'> </td> <td> <body><div class=\'wowitem wowitemlive\'><span class=\'iname\'><span class=\'purplename\'>Bloodlust Brooch</span>
Binds when picked up
Unique
TrinketMiscellaneous
Requires*Level*70
Equip: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=15821\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 72.</a>*
Use: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=35166\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 278 for 20 seconds.</a>*
</div> </td> </tr></table>',VAUTO,HAUTO,FULLHTML);" onmouseout="return nd();">[Bloodlust Brooch]</span></a> again.

This process of course repeats until Hydross is dead. The only difference between phases for me is which cooldowns I use..<a class='forumitemlink' target='_blank' href='http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=29383&locale=enUS'> <tr> <td valign=\'top\' class=\'itemicon\'> <img class=\'itemicon\' src=\'http://wow.allakhazam.com/images/icons/INV_Misc_MonsterScales_15.png\'> </td> <td> <body><div class=\'wowitem wowitemlive\'><span class=\'iname\'><span class=\'purplename\'>Bloodlust Brooch</span>
Binds when picked up
Unique
TrinketMiscellaneous
Requires*Level*70
Equip: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=15821\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 72.</a>*
Use: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=35166\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 278 for 20 seconds.</a>*
</div> </td> </tr></table>',VAUTO,HAUTO,FULLHTML);" onmouseout="return nd();">[Bloodlust Brooch]</span></a> and Adrenaline Rush if it's up during frost phase and Blade Flurry and <a class='forumitemlink' target='_blank' href='http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28288&locale=enUS'> <tr> <td valign=\'top\' class=\'itemicon\'> <img class=\'itemicon\' src=\'http://wow.allakhazam.com/images/icons/INV_Misc_EngGizmos_18.png\'> </td> <td> <body><div class=\'wowitem wowitemlive\'><span class=\'iname\'><span class=\'bluename\'>Abacus of Violent Odds</span>
Binds when picked up
Unique
TrinketMiscellaneous
Requires*Level*70
Equip: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=15817\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases attack power by 64.</a>*
Use: <a target=\'_new\' href=\'/db/spell.html?wspell=33807\' class=\'itemeffectlink\'>Increases haste rating by 260 for 10 seconds.</a>*
</div> </td> </tr></table>',VAUTO,HAUTO,FULLHTML);" onmouseout="return nd();">[Abacus of Violent Odds]</span></a> during poison phase.

Anyway..my point is not that anyone should care what I specifically am doing on this fight. My point is that I have a well-thought-out way to use each of my cooldown abilities and where I should be positioning myself during every part of the fight. I'm of course omitting all sorts of little things like using a sharpening stone on my weapon since Hydross is immune to poisons, or my specific attack chain (sinister strike ad nauseum..occasionally eviscerate..), etc.

I have specific strategies on my cooldown use and positioning for every boss fight. It usually takes me until about the second kill to fine-tune everything. As I start a new boss, I change details of what I'm doing almost every attempt. This includes bosses like Morogrim Tidewalker where I have very little to do..I frequently notice minor things that I can improve.

Anyway, I assume everyone is putting as much thought as I am into their play, but I figured this post could perhaps provide motivation. :smile: If anyone else wants to post their strategies, feel free..I enjoyed reading Haythan's recent post in the Hunter forums regarding his role in each fight.

- Assault

Lad

08-17-2007, 09:11 AM

benseac

08-17-2007, 09:39 AM

Thanks for that Assault. I know little of rogues, seeing as the only rogue I've ever played is still at level 5 and is my bank alt.

I'll give my basic Hydross strategy as well.

I usually rush in about 1-2 seconds after Seld engages Hydross. After he's had a few second wacking away, I'll toss up the curse of shadows which helps increase shadow and arcane damage as well as decrease Hydross' resistance to it. All warlocks can do it but since I have the malediction talent (which increases the potency of the curse of shadows and curse of elements), I'm the one to toss it up.

After a sunder or two is up I start throwing up DOTs. Before I begin DOTting, I fire off one of my trinkets to increase the damage my spells will do. My initial DOT rotation is immolate and unstable affliction, since they have cast times, followed by siphon life and corruption, which are instant cast. Necrosis, a warlock mod I use, has a spell timer, which tells me how long each DOT has until it expires. As long as there's enough time I'll lob a shadow bolt, firing off a trinket beforehand if the cooldown allows for it. In the first round, I usually have enough time to apply all my DOTs twice. To determine this, I look at my DOT timer and the deadly boss mod counter of the hydross corruptions on everyone. If it's early in #3, I'll reaaply them all. If it's a little later in #3, I'll throw up corruption as it has a short life and is instant. Plus, corruption gives me the chance to have an instant-cast shadow bolt. When Etri calls for the DOTs to stop, I begin spamming shadow bolts, firing off any trinkets beforehand if the cooldown permits. Usually near the end of the first round, I'm high in the threat meter according to my meter so I'll cast soul shatter to lower my threat, especially if we're getting close to a transition change.

Starting with the second round, I position myself near Hydross' middle section, to the right, avoiding getting close enough to the imaginary line that would cause him to change back prematurely. Part of my responsibility is to banish one of the mobs he summons. After the transition is done and he does his little speech, I start tab targetting to get the mob I'm assigned to banish. Once he's banished, I start helping getting the mobs down. I'll toss a seed of corruption onto Hydross, as it will damage him as well as two of the unbanished mobs. I'll also toss one on the closest unbanished mob as it will damage him and hydross when it fires off. After throwing a few DOTs on the mob closest to me I'll throw up some DOTs on Hydross. If I see that the summoned mobs are still high in health, I'll do direct damage via shadow bolt spam. When the others pop from banishment I'll repeat what I did with the first two.

When the mobs are close to death, I'll concentrate on Hydross. During the time with the mobs I try to remember to refresh DOTs on Hydross, though at times I forget. Same as with round 1, when the call to stop DOTs is made, I'll switch to shadow bolt spam to do as much damage as possible.

Round 3 can get tricky sometimes. I usually position myself near the back of the room because, a good 90% of the time, the mob I'm assigned to banish pops up there. Our last run, a few times the mob popped up much farther up than he usually does. After the last time he did it, I adjusted where I stand so as to get him when he first pops up.

I follow the same pattern of DOTs, seeds of corruption, etc. that I outlined above for round 3. I repeat this process each round until either he’s dead. Given that it takes longer than 5 minutes, I end up refreshing the curse of shadows, as it has a 5-min time limit.

Nortibiry

08-17-2007, 12:58 PM

From a healer point of view, the best hing you can do on our first few attempts at a boss is just go balls out and spend all your mana in one minute. If you can provide the raid with a full minute to learn the fight, we've done our job. Us healers are inherently more intelligent than the rest of the raid, and will be able to pick up the intricacies of the fight on the go.

But fer seriouses: Don't worry about mana conservation untill everybody else in the raid is in a position to bring the boss down to 0% with you. Theres no point wiping because of a MT death when all the healers have 80% mana. I know shit happens, interrupts, aggro, damage spikes and whatnot, but oftentimes people just die due to lack of healing. It's something we can't really afford when all 25 of us have to learn the fight. So next time we're up against a new boss, just go crazy and have fun. Think of it like one of those fights where all the DPS and Tanks aren't allowed to do DPS because they need to learn how to stand in a pile, or run in a circle? We should try and do the opposite, and give them as much time as they need to learn. Besides, less wipes for us all means more money to spend on my ass in the tram. Literally.[/b]

This ties into an idea I've brought up before with the old SGA group, and read lord knows where on a forum, that people might want to keep some gear with more stamina stacked (maybe pvp stuff, or whatever you have lying around) and throw it on for preliminary pulls on new content. The idea is that the first few pulls are pretty much guaranteed to be wipes, so the goal is to live as long as possible so you can learn as much as possible before everyone dies. Obviously this is going to be very situational and you don't want to sacrifice so much of your primary stats that you can't function (and with the number of fights that rely on fast, focussed dps may just not be possible), but it is something maybe worth keeping in mind.

Zenthrall

08-19-2007, 06:58 AM

Well since there is no mage perspective on the Hydross fight yet, and I'm kind of interested in seeing one, I'll throw up my responsiblities for the fight.

I start off by Seld, then when he starts charging for Hydross I start taking down the "easy adds". I usually pull aggro, but seeing as they hit for about 500-600 I don't mind. They die quick, and I have some help. Once the first two I see are dead(and assault usually kills the third with no help at all), I turn my attention to Hydross. There is usually 5 imp scorches on him, but if there isn't I apply however many I need to cap it off. I then pop my trinket/arcane power and fire about 3 fireballs. Then I pop POM pyro and keep spamming fireballs. I usually wait to pop my second trinket for the next transaction just becuase by now I have about 10-15 seconds before we move him. So I fire fireballs, and when Etri says switch, I switch to arcane blast(becuase my ignite proc has caused us to wipe)

When we start the second phase, I try to run closer to the front right add. Jyynx is usually on it, and by the time it spawns he has aggro on it(go Jyynx!). I usually pop 3 or so scorches on it, sometime 5, and then just down it asap. Then I do the same with Nort's add(sometimes I start with Nort, and go to Jyynx, depends on where I'm standing). I can usually get a scorch or two on hydross before the other adds un-banish. Then when all adds are down, I go balls deep into Hydross, seeing as I cannot pull aggro from the MT becuase he's had so long to get it.

When we pull him back to the water side, I try to stay back a bit behind the raid. Mainly becuase of the water tomb. Seeing as how I can melt his face from anywhere, I tend to move so people aren't within range of me. But if it's only one person and it's early, I'll let it slide for a bit. Then I repeat downing adds and continue kicking the crap outta Hydross. I'll pop trinkets whenever they're coolddown is up, and I'll only pop AP/trinket/POM on Hydross and if I can spare the mana(more than half).

Now mana isn't so much of a problem with me for the fight. Mainly becuase of the mana battery I have in my group.(Thanks Pika!) But I usually do pop a mana gem and my evocation. Otherwise, it's a pretty easy fight. I watch my aggro for the first phase, and if I see I'll be pulling aggro otherwise I'll make sure I don't cause a wipe. But yea, I'd like to say I have it pretty easy when it comes to this fight :tongue:

Oh, and if you see someway to increase dps potential, let me know. This guy still gives us a little trouble, and I'd like to start one shotting him every week.

Wildeyez

08-20-2007, 05:41 AM

You know us paladins..... All we ever do is stand in one spot and spam Flash of Light over and over again and never run out of mana right? :tongue:

But on a serious note, Lad made a really good point about healing on new boss fights. Sometimes its just more important to run out of mana keeping someone up just to make sure we get a bit more time to actually learn the boss fight and hell, sometimes actually kill the boss on the first few attempts.

Wenge

08-20-2007, 08:07 AM

The only thing I'd add to Zen's method is I have a /cast [target=focus] Scorch macro, so I can focus hydross and keep scorch up him even when I don't have him targeted. I have a scorch timer (actually an RDX extension) that tracks the last time I applied scorch to a target, so I can try to reapply it before it fades. Not perfect, sometimes I miss, but that's my trick.