Felmyst

[Nortibiry]

Bosskillers (http://www.bosskillers.com/cgi-bin/bbguild/index.cgi?action=view_guide&guide_id=358)
MMO-Champion (http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=307)

[benseac]

One of the most important things I gleaned is this-

"If an attempt is clearly a wipe, you can save repair money and run into the Green Vapor during Phase 2. When there are only mind controlled people left alive, all players will automatically die with zero durability loss."

I also looked up the WoWWiki entry on Felmyst (http://www.wowwiki.com/Felmyst) and came across this-

"Even though the majority of raidwide damage Felmyst does is nature based the resistance that will help you most (and one you should use at least while learning) is Arcane. The incoming Nature damage is low and predictable. The Encapsulate damage (which is Arcane based) is rapid, random and affected by normal resistance rules. For that reason, during the learning, everyone should use their Violet Badge and plenty of Major Arcane Protection Potion." (emphasis mine)

[Jackal]

Here's a strategy I found on youtube if anyone cares to watch to get a better understanding of Felmyst. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1402328067611005898&ei=r2GkSMWWMobs4gL_xqCbDQ&q=Felmyst&vt=lf&hl=en

[attic]

Here's a strategy I found on youtube if anyone cares to watch to get a better understanding of Felmyst. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1402328067611005898&ei=r2GkSMWWMobs4gL_xqCbDQ&q=Felmyst&vt=lf&hl=enTheir movement tactics depend on 5 priests (the whole "stay there" thing about avoiding encapsulate damage at 2:32). But I agree this is pretty good.

If I can get the mats for bracers then I have a reasonable healing set assembled should our illustrious leaders decide we need more brain heal.

[Nortibiry]

EJ Felmyst thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t24304-felmyst/)

link (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t24304-felmyst/p15/#post849396)
We found one bug with the encounter on mind-controls with battle-rezzing. If you battle rez someone who's dead in a mind-control cloud, they'll get mind-controlled upon being rezzed.

---------------------------

x Mind-Control Area
Dead Person
---------------------------

raid
If you battle-rez x, he'll get MC'd.

...

We've encountered this as well; and found it to work (as in, x will not get MC'd) if x waits with accepting the res until the mist is gone - even if the CR was cast while the mist was there. I suppose it could be some bug, with the person being ressed, is momentarily at the spot he died before 'moved' to the ressers' location. In any case - it's probably safest overall to simply wait with ressing until the air phase is over.
.
Example macro to use "stuff" when fleeing from encapsulate (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t24304-felmyst/p15/#post852223)
(or maybe to use while targetted by encapsulate, not sure)
.
link (http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t24304-felmyst/p14/#post836063)n each mind control dusting the noxious fumes aura will be applied as she makes her pass, then fade when she is on the right or left side between passes. So quite simply once the skeletons are dead wait for the noxious fumes aura to fade after a dusting pass to hit invis. You will very predictably get a full invis every time.
.
perl script to pull encapsulate damage out of combat log, for analysis purposes (http://www.fredhat.com/wow/encapsulate.pl.txt)
.

[Jackal]

I did like the strategy posted on www.mmo-champion.com (http://www.mmo-champion.com) as opposed to the one on www.bosskillers.com (http://www.bosskillers.com) . If the raid doesn't have to move at all, we can dps Felmyst down more than having to run away as long as the healing is up to par which I know Fulcrum is capable of. I will be bringing some Arcane Protection pots (for Encapsulate) I had on my banker but will be looking to see if I find any in the AH. If the guild bank has them even better. I have like 13 pots I will be having on my person tonight. I may have more depending on availability in the AH.

[Jackal]

I found another Felmyst video while browsing through my new Iphone 3g. I'll post it when I get home in about 45 minutes but if you want to look for it just youtube it. It's under How To: Felmyst. It suits us more since it uses 3 groups like we do. I want bag of bones dead!;)

[Nortibiry]

There is some detailed information on calling out the breaths in the mmo champions guide (http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=307), these examples seemed like they might be useful for wider consumption:

First example:

First breath = North = Raid run South and linger on super south border
Second Breath = North = Raid stay in south/super south
Third Breath = Super south = Raid north (just call out north as to not confuse people)

Second Example:

First breath = South = Raid stay North
Second breath = North = Raid run South and linger on Super south border
Third breath = South = Raid run Super south

Third Example:

First breath = North = Raid Run south and linger on Super South Border.
Second Breath = North = Raid run south (You will already be in this location, so just linger on the SS border)
Third breath = Super south = Raid run North

[Jackal]

Here's the other video I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-h0s7RhXgU . It explains the encounter in a simple manner I think.

[Vand]

I have mats for some arcane resistance cauldrons if a guild engineer wants to provide some fel iron casings.

[Rild]

It's like the directors commentary on an indie movie your weird friend is nutso about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHeLXoE7CI8. Just watch how calm and fast they operate I think we are capable of such a feat. For Lyre or Mal http://www.tankspot.com/forums/tankspot-news/36807-felmyst-paladin-how.html.

[Assault]

That pally tanking video is very good imo. A few things to point out: he mentions the frost traps/earthbinds. I'm sure those are handy. Looked like they had one frost trap at the collapse point and the other snares were spread out wherever. The other thing is that you can see that he moves back and forth along the collapse point? That's because he's moving farther away from Felmyst when he's about to breathe. That gives the raid an extra second or two to run out of the breath.

[Raptace]

I really liked that pally video as well gives us a really good idea of what to do. I like the moving back and forth across the collapse point. I think that would help out everyone a ton on moving back and forth.

[Mithwen]

Good link, Rild. Listening to those guys talk about that random stupid stuff is WAY better than listening to you guys with your yawn American accents. ... okay after some minutes of it I guess I do have an overwhelming urge to mute them too so never mind.

P

[Assault]

Another thing I meant to mention tonight is that I think the ranged dps if possible should dps Felmyst whenever he's in range, regardless of what the deal is with the skeletons. If we execute properly the skeletons should easily go down before Felmyst returns to the ground, so you should peel off the skeletons onto the boss whenever possible.

[Mithwen]

Note: When I say MD I mean Mass Dispel and not misdirect. :)

So first I'll say sorry to Assault for saying it was impossible to avoid the dot on gas nova. What I didn't understand was that the spell does some initial damage and THEN there's dot ticks. It's ABSOLUTELY possible to avoid a tick of gas nova (not possible to avoid the up front damage), and in fact it's imperative to avoid it both because of the health damage and also because of the 1k mana loss.

So just to explain what I do for those of you who are curious:
On engaging Felmyst I have found it's quite safe to do a full rotation of spells to get my dots up. VE, VT, SWP, MB, and then MF to kind of get myself lined up. After that MF I hit my MD button to make sure all my peoples are lined up and in range inside my circle. It's at this point that I might move around, so my ranged guys should be aware of that and try to stay close to me.

Once all my dots are up, Felmyst seems to cast a Nova within the time it takes for my first VT to fall off or shortly after that. I honestly wait for the cast with my targeting circle up after I do maybe 1 MF. This is sub optimal for CoH priests, of course, but I figure that as a spriest it's way better to make sure my group lives than to get like ... 4k of hits in. (If Brutallus taught me anything it's that my once mighty dps is now anemic.) Anyway, this all ensures that once I see the nova cast bar go up, I'm casting MD.

MD can be resisted ... or fail or whatever. So be prepared to cast it again (it's probably not worth your time to hunt for the person it failed on and single dispel). Big Wigs has me /say 'Mass dispel failed on Assault' and then I can either cackle and let him suck healer mana dry and start a cascade failure or I can recast. Since the ticks take 2s to land, and my MD cast time is 1.3s I might even be able to beat the first tick for a failed dispel!

It seems like Felmyst likes to cast a Corrosion before Gas Nova just to fake you out with a cast bar. This isn't a hard and fast rule, though, cause on at least one occasion tonight she cast nova before corrosion.

After the first Nova, you have 20ish? seconds to refresh dots and blast away. Once the CD is up, though, I generally have my targeting circle up and ready once again. I have yet to see Felmyst cast 3 novas in a phase, and I think it's not possible although I haven't found a reference for an exact timing on the phases yet so maybe it is.

If you get caught out by an encapsulate: You should still have your targeting circle up if Nova is on cooldown or at least your finger over the MD button. You can move with a targeting circle on your screen. The cast time for Nova is 1s and it takes 2s to get that first tick. There's plenty of time to MD even in a panic situation like that as long as you're ready. Etri's idea of stopping in range of the other group's MD while MDing your own group in this situation was awesome. I totally wish I'd thought of it.

Don't take my word for it. Here's some links!
Gas Nova Bad (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=45855)
http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t24304-felmyst/p4/ - check out Constantius' post halfway down the page. She (prolly he. :( ) backs up my account of Felmyst's behaviour. I swear I didn't copy it.
Constantius again (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t23790-priest_holy_raiding_compendium_v2_wow-2_4_3_a/p4/) saying that holy priests are too good to waste on MD but what can you do. There's discussion about the fight there, anyway.

To recap (Or the tldr version):
-On pull or landing put up dots.
-Cast maybe 1 MF, then wait with target circle up. Make sure your group is in range. Click to start MD cast as soon as Felmyst casts Gas Nova. Be ready to cast again in case of misses.
-Next, reapply dots and go crazy during Gas Nova cooldown.
-Put target circle for MD back up after Nova CD is up, and repeat the MD cast when appropriate.
-DeePeeEss after and survive Phase 2 (make sure you dot up Felmyst real good when she takes off).
-Dead fel dragon, everyone tells you what an amazing priest you are and puts up a picture of you in their locker.
Winnar!

[Raptace]

Another thing I meant to mention tonight is that I think the ranged dps if possible should dps Felmyst whenever he's in range, regardless of what the deal is with the skeletons. If we execute properly the skeletons should easily go down before Felmyst returns to the ground, so you should peel off the skeletons onto the boss whenever possible.

Is Nort getting some sort of MD and I mean Mis Direct whenever she lands? The reason I asked is because I can only do the aggro dump once every 5 mins, and even without consumables last night I found myself threat capped... I just don't want her bolting for the dps everytime she hits the floor.

[Nortibiry]

Is Nort getting some sort of MD and I mean Mis Direct whenever she lands? The reason I asked is because I can only do the aggro dump once every 5 mins, and even without consumables last night I found myself threat capped... I just don't want her bolting for the dps everytime she hits the floor.

I should probably be getting misdirects whenever possible, because threat is going to be an issue. There's nothing magical about getting them right as she lands, threat never resets in this fight :)

[edit] Threat will probably step up a little as I get more comfortable with things I've already started making little adjustments, although I don't know if I'll be able to get a ton more without adjusting gear.

[Nortibiry]

Oh hey that page Pika linked also suggests putting amp magic on the entire raid. I know the mages love it when we do that ;)

[Zhek]

with the progression we have made, and people seeming to make it out of encap alot more often, i think its time to think about arcane potions again, now that people are actualy escapeing it could open the margin for error a little bit so if someone is late one second, shit doesent snowball from being short a healer, or a priest, or whatever

[Vand]

Another thing I meant to mention tonight is that I think the ranged dps if possible should dps Felmyst whenever he's in range, regardless of what the deal is with the skeletons. If we execute properly the skeletons should easily go down before Felmyst returns to the ground, so you should peel off the skeletons onto the boss whenever possible.
I have been doing this as much as I have thought feasible. There are two issues, however:

Threat. With Nort building no threat during Phase 2, it is very easy to surpass his threat by more than 30% during that phase. It happened once to me last night...Felmyst lands and immediately enjoys a tasty Vand snack. Furthermore, it is very difficult to successfully dump threat with invis. Even one point of damage during the 5-second phase-in period cancels the dump, and with the aura damage every 3 seconds, well, you can do the math. I have noticed that there are some periods during Phase 2 that the aura drops off. I suspect that may be due to range, although I am not yet sure. There may (or may not) be some way to take advantage of this in order to drop threat. Maybe the paladins could be ready to BoP a ranged person who had generated too much threat during Phase 2.
Range. Much of the time during Phase 2, Felmyst is out of range. I could attempt to chase her, but that could have me crossing the middle if I did it before the lasers were done. Perhaps the best time to do it would be after the skellies are dead. I am not saying this is an insurmountable issue, just one that deserves some discussion beyond a simple directive to DPS her during Phase 2.

[Nortibiry]

... With Nort building no threat during Phase 2, it is very easy to surpass his threat by more than 30% during that phase. ...

Remember that when Felmyst lands, neither of us are in melee range.

[Xyriin]

I should probably be getting misdirects whenever possible, because threat is going to be an issue. There's nothing magical about getting them right as she lands, threat never resets in this fight :)

Pretty sure MDs were up most of the time. I was popping a MD right after Haythan on the pull and I think from the WWS had 28 attempts with 34 MDs and 8 attempts appreciably over the MD cooldown. I'm sure I missed hitting the exact cooldowns a few times while running around in phase 2 though. I'll try to watch the cooldowns a bit more and to try and squeeze another 3000-4000dmg worth of threat in.

[Nortibiry]

Pretty sure MDs were up most of the time. I was popping a MD right after Haythan on the pull and I think from the WWS had 28 attempts with 34 MDs and 8 attempts appreciably over the MD cooldown. I'm sure I missed hitting the exact cooldowns a few times while running around in phase 2 though. I'll try to watch the cooldowns a bit more and to try and squeeze another 3000-4000dmg worth of threat in.

Sorry I didn't meant to imply that it wasn't already being done, just that in general it should (and to point out that it didn't really matter exactly when, just that more threat was better).

[Vand]

Remember that when Felmyst lands, neither of us are in melee range.
Oh, so that means that even 1% over is too much. hmm...

[Xyriin]

No offense taken at all ;)

But yeah, I think if I watch the cooldowns closer I can get some in during phase 2 between movement since the debuff timer to get the shots in lasts a while. Last night I think I was mainly popping it just before phase 2 if it was up or waiting until the end of phase 2 if it came up in the middle of phase 2.

I just wish MD actually amped the threat on the damage done. :(

[Vand]

Here is a quote from Manly, EJ mage extraordinaire:

I can go all out on felmyst at any given time with the sole exception of the first ground phase where I limit myself to only trinkets at most (in order to save my other cooldowns for aoe, for which it is a lot better used). Other than that, as soon as she goes into phase 2, I can go all out, then invis/full threat clear at the end of the first phase 2, then I will never have to remotely worry about threat again in the fight.

The timing of it is a bit tricky since invis likes to break on any occasion it can. Usually I try and do it at 7s before it lands (using bigwigs timer), at which time you generally don't have the dot on you anymore. I've had my invisibility break early at times despise having no debuffs on me, or new debuffs applied, but such is the nature of the spell I guess. 7s is what seemed to work best.

That still leaves the question of whether I should be chasing Felmyst to stay in range.

[Assault]

I was going to say that I was pretty sure I read tips from multiple classes on the EJ Felmyst forums regarding how to properly manage threat on this fight, and I'm glad you found at least one post about that, Vand. I'm sure there's something similar for warlocks.

Regarding the range, what I envision is simply switching to her when she's in range and switching back to skeletons when she's out of range. Of course after the skeletons are dead you can run pretty much wherever you like to get in range, if you wish.

[Mithwen]

It seems kind of clear to me that you shouldn't chase Felmyst and you should instead worry about staying alive. I certainly haven't seen any ranged chasing her in the videos I've watched. Honestly, I think folks like me with dots and more suited to single target dps should be worried about keeping things up.

Anyway, there are times in phase 2 after the skellies are dead that you can start to look for when Felmyst is in range and get off some fireballs. And stay alive and un-MCed. I think alive is important.

In addition, for people worrying about threat, I think the point Vand posted from the EJ forums is again a pretty clear one, although it's good I guess to get external confirmation. Felmyst isn't coming down in perfect position right away. This always means don't open up with a trinketed nuke before Nort even gets a sunder up. Like ... always. I'm absolutely certain that if you give Nort time as suggested after the pull then threat will be much less of an issue.

P

[Raptace]

I was wondering too if maybe the locks going affliction might make this fight go faster?? I mean its not like Felmyst is there for very long over your heads... I mean your talking a full rack of dots vs. maybe what? 1 shadow bolt per? Just a thought...
Also siphon life + the 2 piece bonus from T6 could make surviving a lot easier... thoughts?

[phewl]

I see no reason to change from destruction, Also after phase one, threat is not an issue for me as I can shatter and drop threat. All you really need to do is pace yourself in the first phase 1/2 set and then shatter if u need. You should then be able to go fullout for the rest of the fight thats on the ground(pending you having to run or not).

After phase one we have roughly 60K threat, if you can stay reasonably behind nort to 100K threat then drop 50% of it, you should have no problems with catching up id assume. I don't think it will be that hard to manage threat for warlocks once we start living long enough to make use out of soul shatters 50% drop(ie using it at higher threat values for more gain). Right now threat may look iffy but that will all change when the fight starts running full duration imo.

[Seldegas]

As far as chaseing goes wouldent that put you close to her and decrease the amount of time you had to get away from the breath? I thought we were going to lean towards moving away from her to give more breath time.

[Raptace]

After last night looking at everything, I can dps when she is in the air for the beams and stuff, but beyond that, chasing her just isn't a option. When she is doing the breath and going past us there is about 1-2 seconds while in range to maybe get a dot up, but I can't really seem to dps alot during the air phase except we decided to add in all locks throwing up curses of doom, then reapplying the normal curses when she is on the floor.

I think in order to get this we just have to go nuts whenever she is on the ground... thoughts?

[Wenge]

It's clear that with airborne DPS, threat is going to be a significant problem.

To whomever was whispering Etri to say how much of an idiot I am, please understand that in all cases the following happened:

DPS while in the air.
Attempted to go invisible while she was coming around to land, around 7 seconds on the timer.
Invisibility fails after one or two seconds.
Ice block to let Nort grab initial aggro.
12 seconds later ice block falls off, I do no attacks, no added threat whatsoever, Felmyst waits two seconds then turns and kills me.

Mages have only two aggro options, ice block which pauses threat but does not remove it, and invisibility (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=66) which removes threat over five seconds. The effect of the spell is immediately stopped if the mage does or receives any effect, which means I cannot blink or cast, but also if Felmyst flies overhead and we get the aura, or if I'm healed or chain-healed. Anything like that breaks the invisibility effect. It is nothing like vanish, feign death, or deathcoil.

The only option seems to be to DPS until we get close to overtaking Nort's threat during the first rep, and then using any aggro drop abilities to essentially hope that it lowers threat enough that we can DPS longer on subsequent repetitions.

If anyone has any constructive comments on what I'm doing, I'd prefer you whisper me rather than Etri. Yes I know I pulled aggro. I think it was three times total. I know how to play.

[Mithwen]

Yeah, it looks to me like you dps in P2 while beams go out and the skellies are getting gathered. Then Felmyst flies off to the east and that's about it. We have been knocking off a couple of percent of health there, though. Survival is still a bigger issue than damage right now. We do need to pick up the dps, but it doesn't matter if people keep dying.
P

*hug* Wenge. People who can't ask you directly can get stuffed. You don't have to listen to them.

On threat, one thing I was wondering is how long do you guys give Nort before you start blasting? There seems to be a long time between when you can start hitting Felmyst and the time she actually acquires a target and gets settled down and stuff. I think that giving Nort even a little bit more of a head start would help? Obviously, there's issues with this because we're behind the timer already however, we also haven't seen enrage yet. Also, I don't know what you've been doing because this is the only fight I've seen yet where I don't have a bigger threat problem than you other casters! I do know that Nort is awesome and we don't usually have to worry about giving him a head start at all, but the mechanics of this fight might just be such that we do.

[Seldegas]

I'd blame etri he likes to make up ficticious complaints from random sources he has even had the nerve to suggest that some may not be entirely pleased with some of the things i do, which clearly is impossible and just another ploy to keep the short people down, unless its from lad but thats all because i wont respond to his constant attempts to win my affection and as such is completely disregarded.

[Nortibiry]

I guess all I can really contribute to the threat conversation is to point out that:

1) When she lands I'm not generating any threat (save what the hunters are giving me) until she gets into melee
2) When she lands we're all at range, I'm not sure what will happen as far as picking her target goes. It is possible she'll just re-evaluate and go for the person who has the highest threat, or it is possible she'll still be on me and then pick a new target based on anyone generating threat and being above me, which will be 130% while we're all at range, and well under me if she runs past you on her way to me (since then I'll be at range and people in one of the groups or some of the melee may be in melee range sooner). It certainly can't hurt to do nothing while she runs back to the raid as in my experience mobs don't consider you as a new target until you generate threat, even if you're at the top of the list (although now that I think about it I'm not sure why Wenge would pull popping out of ice block ... maybe I'm not quite right on that point).

I imagine a big part of the fight is going to be figuring out how to take full advantage of aggro drops, since in theory you can go way past me during one of the air phases as long as you can get rid of all that threat before she lands. But this may be easier said than done, especially with invisibility. I didn't know you could break invisibility by healing someone, we might have to work with this and shut everything down for a few seconds somewhere or another to give the mages time to cast it (once we figure out where a window where they aren't taking damage is).

As for me I'll try and figure out how to generate more threat, there are some little things I can do like only using thunderclap twice per ground phase (enough to provide full coverage since it's only 55 seconds, if I'm careful and don't get resists). I've read somewhere suggesting the tank be put in the melee group for buffs but I don't know if that is necessary as long as I have windfury and Seld dropping battle shout.

[Xyriin]

I could be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure my target of target picked up a few of the higher threat casters while Felmyst was in the air. So there may very well be an aggro recalculation sometime before Felmyst lands. Just guessing on this and only basing this off Felmyst's momentary target selection so please don't take it as factual information. ;)

[Vand]

Wenge and I do not do any DPS when Felmyst is on the ground until she is positioned by Nort, at least for the first Phase 1. I have also waited until she was in position during subsequent Phase 1s, but that may be unnecessary. If I have successfully dumped all my threat at the end of Phase 2, I should probably start nuking her as soon as she is in range running towards Nort; right?

As for invis, I had little problem with it last night. What I do is wait until after the skellies are dead and then keep an eye on my debuffs to make sure the DOT debuff is not presently on me. I then hit invis and keep my fingers crossed. I had a couple times where the debuff was reapplied before I had fully faded, but the debuff does not break invis until it ticks, which is (I think) two seconds after application. So as long as the debuff does not get reapplied for ~3 seconds after hitting invis, I am good to go. I think Wenge is mistaken about being healed breaking invis. There were a couple times where I was hit by a chain heal during my fade period, and it did not break. As for the time I hit invis, it seems like it was anywhere between about 15 seconds and 7 seconds before she landed.

[Wenge]

Bandaging, potting, gem-tapping or cookie-eating will break the effect. Chain heal and other non-targeted heals might not, direct heals might, and that would be worth testing.

[Raptace]

To Pika: I know Phewl and I are waiting till Nort has around 20kish threat before we start to dps, could we wait longer? Probably.
To Xyriin: Felmyst was targetting me alot when she was in the air when I was highest threat. I had one time where I hit soul shatter but I'm guessing she was more than 50yrds from me cause she still came at me and it wasn't resisted.

I don't know how this thing is going to work with the mages, that dot has to suck for invis, almost making it undoable right? Unless timed perfectly anyways...
I think the reason she was still running at Wenge is just basically cause he couldn't get that invis off everytime. Even if he Ice Blocks, that only lasts for the duration so he's not a target to her but as soon as he pops out shes on him again because he was still the highest threat on Omen. But yes, threat is going to be a huge issue on this, the only thing I can think of is practically waiting till the 2nd ground phase to dps, but that can't be a good answer.

[Vand]

Bandaging, potting, gem-tapping or cookie-eating will break the effect. Chain heal and other non-targeted heals might not, direct heals might, and that would be worth testing.
All we need to do is have me log on to my priest and heal you when you're trying to invis. It might also be interesting to see if a renew tick from a spell cast on you before you hit invis would break it. In order to make it a totally accurate test, you might want to get naked and then reequipped so that there is an actual HP deficit to heal.

[Nortibiry]

To Pika: I know Phewl and I are waiting till Nort has around 20kish threat before we start to dps, could we wait longer? Probably.

I think as far as total damage done, you'll win by using soulshatter as late in the fight as you can while still being threat capped by the end. Of course I don't think we really know what that point is yet, but in theory that's what you want to do :) When you start doesn't matter in the slightest, what counts is being capped when you soulshatter, being capped at the end of the fight, and pushing that point back as far as possible so that you shed as much threat as possible. This applies in general, I guess the interesting twist for Felmyst is that you can go above me during an air phase, as long as you shed the extra threat before she lands.

[Mithwen]

Yeah, 20k threat sounds like more than Nort would get in the time it takes to position Felmyst. That seems like a reasonable number and I'm sure you guys put more thought into it than I have! There's enough time in the fight to plan for 2 soulshatters (and invis, you guys already calculated that I'm sure!) so one on the first transition from P2 to P1 and then another for later (hope we get there).

Anyway, waiting for Nort to build up threat to the point where you won't overtake his number after dumping aggro into the second P1 seems to be the only answer here. If you want to calculate it before next Tuesday, I know that my dps spreadsheet calculates a max tps. You can estimate a dps time from there (and say we can nuke Felmyst in the air for 20-30s?) and come up with a rough estimate if you're so inclined (I know I wouldn't be). Course, I don't know what Nort's average tps is, and therefore what the number would be coming out of P1. Just saying it's computable! Remember soulshatter only drops half your aggro number ... invis is based on how long you can hold it? Just suggestions. I'm sure you're all over this stuff already. :)

P

[attic]

Bandaging, potting, gem-tapping or cookie-eating will break the effect. Chain heal and other non-targeted heals might not, direct heals might, and that would be worth testing.I believe every jump of chain heal is considered a direct heal.

[Vand]

invis is based on how long you can hold it?
P
Invis drops 10% of your threat every second during the fading period, and then the remaining 50% the instant you're fully invisible. So if it breaks after only 2 or 3 seconds of fading, you've only shed 20% or 30% of your threat. Why Bliz didn't make it 20% per second is beyond me, especially considering the fact that it likes to break just because somebody sneezed in China.

[Rild]

gesundheit

[Kastus]

...just because somebody sneezed in china.

Shut. Down. Everything.

[Zhek]

Shut. Down. Everything.

fucking madagascar

[attic]

I think the healing needs to change. It's not uncommon for the encapped person to get minimal heals beyond the NS.

7/25ths of the time the NS healer is running. Making the NS problematic and follow on heals rare.
1/25th of the time the NS healer is the person encapped. Then they're screwed.

[Lockon]

Quotes from around the world:

"An important realization to make is that Encapsulate is unlikely to kill anyone quickly provided they're topped off; at 3500 per tick it should take a minimum of three ticks to kill anyone from full health, and honestly who can't get 20ish yards away from an Encapsulated guy by the time it ticks three times? Add onto that Arcane Pots/Health Pots/Healthstones/outside heals, and it should really be impossible barring a disconnect or massive player error to die from an Encapsulate, even if you're stacked right on top of the victim when he's targetted by Felmyst." - Ghando from Elitist Jerks

"One of the things that helped us a lot though on healing for encapsulate was to have our CoH priest spam CoH on the person with encapsulate for the first few seconds. Since the spell has a 15 yard range and encapsulate has a 20 yard range you are almost always hitting the people who are moving slowly."
- Nachozcrisis from Lethality

"Amp Magic is entirely safe for Felmyst and should be placed on the entire raid, every attempt." - Jarlyn from Fusion

"Assist heal macros work wonders for things like that. Target Felmyst, spam your standard macro (Tank healers) and it'll autotarget the encap target without you needing to do anything. Assuming you aren't the target or moving of course. Main tank healers should heal encap people as the tank won't be taking any hits. " - Trolls from WoW Forums


My Opinion.

Honestly, the only problem we have with Felmyst are the encapsulates. I have suggestions for new healing assignments and concerns about the current Mass Dispel Groups. On a side note, are encaps being called on vent? In my head I only hear them 50% of the time.

Healing assignments

I have thought of two options for encapsulate healing: (1) Have the resto shamans that are not in the encapsulated group spam LHW on the encapsulated target while other healers spot heal anyone that might be running slow. (2) Have the MT healers spam the encapsulated target while the resto shaman chain heal the runners (a shaman will be required to spam LHW if one of the MT healers is running). BOTH of these strats require healers to be using /assist macros for the fastest possible targeting. I still think it is ridiculous to have runners die to encapsulates. If you are not the one encapsulated, how are you not 20 yds away in under 2 seconds?

Felmyst turns to you - You should be on the edge of your seat and sprinting as soon as this happens
Felmyst casts Encapsulate on your group - You should have already been running by now
1 second at 3500 damage - Normal damage tick
2 seconds at 7000 damage - You could be faster, if you died it was a healers fault because you werent topped off but hey you coulda popped a healthstone
3 seconds at 10500 damage - You fail. You are clearly too slow but you should have lived if you used a healthstone.

MD Groups

When healing my assigned group, using Grid, its been a PITA. I usually have 7 people to heal spread across the groups(2 from Group One, 2 from Group Two, 2 from Group Three, and 1 from Group Five). It would be a ton easier for me to raid heal and encapsulate heal if the people I were assigned to were just in the same group with just a couple randoms. Maybe this is just my problem and I have to deal with it. Im not trying to QQ just wondering if this is the same for anyone else.

[Assault]

Good post Lockon, thanks.

I agree we should be faster with the running out..we make it work sometimes but pretty infrequently, especially considering we have SO MUCH PRACTICE. I'm frankly embarrassed that we're not better at it.

What is the macro? I'm not as big into macros as I probably should be (though I don't heal). Like theoretically the main tank healers don't target Nortibiry? They put the macro into their main healing spell to heal whoever Felmyst is targetting (which is typically Nort)? If so, could that cause problems because Felmyst switches back to Nort before the encapsulate is completed? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something here, please explain in more detail.

Regarding the group makeup I think there's room for improvement there also, but I haven't given it very much thought. I think having 8 people (or fewer than 10 people, at least) in an MD group is a good idea, so there's room for error in case people get shuffled around somehow. I think having healers who are as evenly distributed among the three groups as possible should be a priority. I think having people with their shaman (or other group member who provides a short-distance buff..?) is a good idea. Beyond those three considerations, I don't see any other restrictions on the groups, really. Please explain the Grid problem, because I have no experience with that.

[Lockon]

The Macro

/target Felmyst
/assist
/cast Flash of Light (Rank 7)(or w/e heal)

Because Felmyst on the ground will ALWAYS target Nort unless she is encapsulating, in which case the encapsulated person is the target. That way you can quickly, accurately, and easily heal the encapsulated target without breaking a sweat. Just like making an extra macro for throwing cores on Vashj, this macro for healing the encapsulated person.

My Grid Problem

For me the people I heal are spread across a 5x5 box. Each box is a person in the raid and they are in rows according to raid group. Since the people I have to heal are in completely different groups, I have to keep watch on different squares of this Grid instead of a 5x1 row. Heres a picture.

Grid
X X X X X (X = Lifebars)
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X

Grid with my current healing assignments

X O O X X (X = non assigned healing, O = assigned healing)
X X O X O
X O X O X
X X X X X
X X O X X

Grid maybe simplified

X X O X X (X = non assigned healing, O = assigned healing)
X X X X X
O O O O O
X X X O X
X X X X X

Then again, maybe im just QQing but if anyone else is in the same situation as me, then maybe it will increase healing efficiency.

[attic]

Swap your healing spell into:
/cast [help] Flash of Light; [target=targettarget] Flash of Light

If you have a friendly unit targeted then you heal them. Otherwise you heal whoever the mob you have targeted has targeted.

[Assault]

Here's the thing with that assist macro, and correct me if I'm wrong. Felmyst will target the person he's encapsulating. Very shortly after that he actually casts the encapsulate on that person. Very shortly after that he switches back to be targeting Nortibiry. He doesn't HIT Nort for 6 seconds (or however long encapsulate lasts) but he is targeting Nort. But during those 6 seconds if you were assisting Felmyst you would be healing Nort (who doesn't need it) instead of the encapsulated person.

[attic]

There you go. Bringing in uselessly true facts again.

Maybe just an /assist Felmyst button then :-(

[Raptace]

how are you not 20 yds away in under 2 seconds?

Felmyst turns to you - You should be on the edge of your seat and sprinting as soon as this happens
Felmyst casts Encapsulate on your group - You should have already been running by now
1 second at 3500 damage - Normal damage tick
2 seconds at 7000 damage - You could be faster, if you died it was a healers fault because you werent topped off but hey you coulda popped a healthstone
3 seconds at 10500 damage - You fail. You are clearly too slow but you should have lived if you used a healthstone.


I personally turn myself towards the group I'm running to. I find then that all I have to do is hit autorun when encapsulate goes off. I do find though that I'm almost always hit by 2 ticks, but I pop a healthstone and I'm good to go. I don't understand at all when people die from the encapsulate.
I will say also though that, well atleast myself and I'm rarely topped off when a encapsulate goes off, though usually I'm fine, still though I just have to use a healthstone or a health potion and I'm good to go. Lockon is right that its the reason we are being held back on this, people need to be faster.

[Kastus]

I personally turn myself towards the group I'm running to. I find then that all I have to do is hit autorun when encapsulate goes off. I do find though that I'm almost always hit by 2 ticks, but I pop a healthstone and I'm good to go. I don't understand at all when people die from the encapsulate.
I will say also though that, well atleast myself and I'm rarely topped off when a encapsulate goes off, though usually I'm fine, still though I just have to use a healthstone or a health potion and I'm good to go. Lockon is right that its the reason we are being held back on this, people need to be faster.

Always pop a health stone when encap goes up on your group, there is NO reason not to.
Also, Gas nova/Stupid aura ticks get people low, then they get hit with encap Rapt, that's how they die.
I friggin wish I had my 51 pointer, raid healing would get me off so much more than tank spam.

[Raptace]

Yeah this fight really reminds me of Archie... in that if we survive, we win.

[Mithwen]

I disagree that you always pop a HS on encap. There are reasons not to. It could be a paladin or a mage, and then you've wasted a stone and you won't have your cooldown up in the sad event that your group gets hit with a second one. What I think is that encap hits, you start running and check bigwigs to see if it's someone who can get rid of encap. Your eyes fly to your health bar and you have your finger over your HS hotkey. Out of the corner of your eye, or somewhere in your field of vision you can notice whether or not the big purple spheres have stopped emanating from the spot you've just vacated, and whether you can go back. All this will have happened well before you get to the next group, and if someone bubbles or blocks off their encap, you've saved yourself a health stone and will have more time to cast.

Anyway, it's a lot, yes. We'll all need to sit up in our chairs, take a sip of coffee, and treat it like that really annoying boss fight in Zelda we don't want to have to do again, but just need to twitch to the side at the right time to get through. (and no, Zelda fights aren't all that hard but you know what I mean) But when we do sit up for a whole 10 minutes, it'll happen.

And it's not really like Archimonde. That's a fight you really do just need to survive and not worry TOO much about dps on. This fight is more demanding, and requires a reasonable amount of dps while moving as well as playing smart. Also Raptace, I'll point out that you run with 5k more health than I do in your raid gear, so that gives a much larger cushion than most of us for you to be slow with. Yes, I can throw on more stam gear (nothing that will get me to 14k) but the mages can't. My point is that I think we could all do with a little less finger pointing at what someone else did wrong, and think a little more about what we personally could do to stop wipes.

[Vand]

I identified last week what most often kills me, and it was the beams...primarily other people's and not my own. For some reason, I have little problem running when the beam is on me, but if it is on somebody that I am too close too, it can be very hard to survive. There was one time last week where, on my screen, I was running slightly ahead of the person the beam was on, but still got hit by it and killed. That made me realize that, due to the nature of the game, you can think you're ahead of somebody but not actually be as far as the server is concerned.

Obviously the solution is to stay more spread out before the beams start. That can be easier said than done due to the need to be in range to DPS Felmyst in the air, along with the short window of time that exists to do that DPS making you not want to spend much time getting positioned. However, I did make more of an attempt to keep some distance from people, and that really improved my survivability.

[Raptace]

I wasn't trying to finger point :( sorry if I gave that impression, I just don't like seeing people die so often from Encaps. I personally usually wait till I see a 2nd tick from Endcap before I hit a healthstone.
And yeah I never really think about my hp being higher than other peoples, mine is sorta high for a caster I spose.
I just really think we should be doing better than we are, and it just sucks we haven't gotten this guy yet, but we will when we come back, I can feel it.

[attic]

We have this boss beat if everyone:
A) Takes two or less ticks of encap
B) Stays out of the green gas

[Vand]

I apologize for dying much to much last night. My computer was giving me fits, and I just could not understand why. It would basically slow down to less than 1 fps, and that is just much too slow to respond to conditions in a fight like Felmyst. Thus my dying when somebody in my group got encapsulated, or becoming MC'd because I could not move quick enough to get out of the gas.

After having eliminated just about every cause I could think of (including one attempt with 0 addons), out of desparation, I did the last hour last night having unplugged my external keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and just playing with my laptop's built-in components. While the picture was much smaller than I was accustomed to (yay for ultra-portables with 12-inch screens), and I had to get used to raiding without a mouse or full keyboard, for some reason that resolved the problem. I have no idea why that would solve the issues, but hopefully tonight I can be in full control of my character and we can beat this mofo.

[Mithwen]

It's interesting you say you died a lot, cause my recount didn't indicate you died an inordinate amount. There were maybe one or two people who stood head and shoulders above the rest for lots of deaths, but I'll leave it to the WWS to be the final word on that. Of course, you probably didn't get BRs and hence a second chance to die and climb the only meter that matters.

Which brings me to another point: if you find you're dying a lot, please try to analyze why, and what you can do to survive. Ultimately, it's probably because someone near you is an idiot, but when it's always someone else being an idiot but you eating dirt, it doesn't really matter if it wasn't your fault.

Let's take, e.g. my untimely death to skellies the other night when everyone made it though P1 for the first time. That sucked. I don't think it was entirely my fault ... if I'm grabbing healing aggro over a paladin with righteous fury on with just my vampiric embrace ... well ... I think maybe someone forgot to hit their RF button. But so what? If I die, that sucks, and I could have easily not died if I a) did not get within melee range of the skeletons and b) had then had time to fade. Or how about you die cause some idiot came and stood next to you during the beam phase? How do you not do that next time?

So take a minute or two to review your untimely deaths in this fight and what you might do in a similar situation to prevent it, even if it was someone else's fault. Some of us have lots to track on this fight, and some of us don't. But most of us will make a mistake at some point. I think we all need to figure out how to better mitigate small errors so they don't blow up into full on cascade failure.

P

The above said, I do agree with Nort that we need to aim higher than being perfect 24/25 times. That's only 96%!

[Nortibiry]

Sort of related to what Pika said, after the second skeleton laser beam goes out I try to run Nort close to the far end of them and pick up / debuff skeletons that spawn late, since they are almost always on some healer who is also out there (probably trying to keep the person kiting the beam alive?) or priests/shaman -- I'm not sure why they aren't landing on Xaan but they definitely aren't (I doubt it is Xaan's fault). Thunderclap seems to be sufficient to pick them up at any rate so they aren't that angry at anyone.

I do see people die though, despite my efforts. I'll try and work on it but is it possible to have fewer people out in no lands man? I think it would help if as soon as the second beam goes out everyone else books it towards the middle but more importantly positions themselves such that Lyre's consecrate is between them and the second beam, so that the skeletons have to run through it. I'm not sure if anyone else has the health to tank them, but I'm pretty sure these are the skeletons that are killing people in phase 2.

Maybe we could have the hunters drop frost traps such that they're between the tail end of beam 2 and our collapse point to slow down these stragglers instead of trapping at the collapse point? They wouldn't have to be right on top of the beams, just far enough out that the trailing healers and kiters will pass the trap before the skeletons get to them. I'm not sure there is any benefit to having them slowed once they're on Lyre anyways, if anything it will reduce her threat on them whenever they're out of melee range.

At any rate this is one of the problems we need to address. I don't want to point fingers but I often see them on Kubera, Attic, and all three priests -- maybe these are just the people ending up with the most healing threat due to aoe heals, despite righteous fury? Is it possible to avoid healing non-Lyre targets until even later in phase 2? Is it viable to have Xaan be the person following and keeping alive the second beam kiter? I have only questions on the healing end of things sadly.

[edit] In before Pika edited her post! Woo!

[Vand]

Overhealing creates no threat, so it means that whatever healing threat those people are creating is restoring actual lost hit points. And I know that many times one of their heals has kept me alive through the 1k DOT, especially since my self-healing cooldowns are very often not up due to having used them on an encapsulate. I am sure the same can be said for just about everybody, so I do not think the answer is to delay healing until after the skeletons have been gathered. That is just going to lead to more people dying to the DOT.

The idea of collapsing right after the second beam starts going out is a good one. My only concern about that is that collapsing = movement = much lower DPS on Felmyst during the only airborne period that she is in range. Of course, ranged DPSers aren't generally getting anything other than proximity aggro from the skellies, so maybe they could keep nuking while the healers collapsed.

[attic]

Lyre can only hit so many people. I'm going to heal anyone <50% health but not top folks off.

And, once the second beam hits, shouldn't everyone who isn't the target be running to the middle?

[Nortibiry]

The idea of collapsing right after the second beam starts going out is a good one. My only concern about that is that collapsing = movement = much lower DPS on Felmyst during the only airborne period that she is in range. Of course, ranged DPSers aren't generally getting anything other than proximity aggro from the skellies, so maybe they could keep nuking while the healers collapsed.

I'd much rather stabilize the fight and then worry about the enrage timer than vice versa, but you're right in that if DPS don't have skeleton aggro it doesn't really matter where they're standing (as long as they're not taking damage and putting load on the healers).

I'm not sure if I'm even in line with the concern but I definitely see people die a lot at that point in the air phases. I don't think it's necessarily their fault, more that we need to adjust things so they can do their job (keeping people alive) without being in any more danger than necessary.

[edit] Also of course if anyone who is dying sees some issue with what I'm doing that would improve things, don't be shy about bringing it up.

[attic]

ranged DPSers aren't generally getting anything other than proximity aggro from the skellies, so maybe they could keep nuking while the healers collapsed.Folks are still taking 1k damage ticks. Come to the middle where you can be more efficiently healed.

[Vand]

I'm not sure if I'm even in line with the concern but I definitely see people die a lot at that point in the air phases.
Most of the times I have died during that phase have been from getting hit by the beam, not by getting skeleton aggro. I have greatly minimized that of late, however. It's just a matter of staying spread out, at least until the second beam starts going out. One thing I have learned is that you'd best start spreading out as soon as she start flapping her wings, because the first beam can come extremely quickly. That was the only time I died prematurely last night (at least while I had control of my character)...I was just too close to Kub and the beam started sooner than I expected.

[phewl]

Some people do not seem able to pick up on their own mistakes and analyze themselves. We need to start pointing out each others mistakes when we see them and stop being so god dam polite. What i take from this is that people either are not aware that they are constantly making mistakes or that they think the rest of the raid can carry their dead weight. Every time someone dies early we need to analyze what they or their healers did wrong. And if that same bullshit keeps happening we need to change something or someone.

This is another fight where everyone needs to be giving 110% effort, every attempt.

For example, IMO their is no reason anyone should get mind controlled more than once or twice in a night(not intentionally). And that is giving room for uncontrollable things such as lag etc. Personally I don't think i have ever got mind controlled when the call of where to run was made properly. Alot of our mistakes are 100% avoidable, the only excuse is you are not consistently giving as much effort as everyone else.

I can understand occasionally screwing up on the running from encapsulate because it has a faster timing and you rely on yourself to make the call. But we all know we have to be ready to run from the breath, and assault gives us plenty of warning time.

I'm sorry but i do not feel bad about calling people out on easy game mechanics, especially when we have had this much time working on them. Cath came in last night for his first time here and i don't think he got mindcontrolled more than 1 time accidently, if he even did. It's not hard.

Like i said before, we need to criticize each other as a group to become better. If people can't handle a bit of criticism, then they better be a pretty flawless player.

I would expect you guys to make me aware of my mistakes, I would not take any offense to that.

[phewl]

During the whole air phase i stay stationary unless the beam comes in my direction, to max out dps, up until 10-12sec before the breath. I find that i can easily put out an extra 30-40K threat doing that which is a fair bit of damage, which it appears we need to have a chance of killing her.

I agree that we need to start spreading at the start of P2 quicker, because if the beam goes on someone thats stayed at the clumping spot in phase 1 it can hit numerous people.

edit - i never have a problem with dying due to the 1K aura, although i do tend to stay somewhat closer to the middle, but only because that is where i have to be to be in range of felmyst.

[benseac]

Sort of related to what Pika said, after the second skeleton laser beam goes out I try to run Nort close to the far end of them and pick up / debuff skeletons that spawn late, since they are almost always on some healer who is also out there (probably trying to keep the person kiting the beam alive?) or priests/shaman -- I'm not sure why they aren't landing on Xaan but they definitely aren't (I doubt it is Xaan's fault). Thunderclap seems to be sufficient to pick them up at any rate so they aren't that angry at anyone.

The first few times we did it I didn't realize I had Salvation on, which dampens RF a bit. Once I clicked salv off, I found I got agro faster. Still, it does seem to be spotty even with RF so I need to figure out how to get those skeletons to me quicker.

[Mithwen]

Wow, this went somewhere while I was watching videos of gnome death knights.

Okay so ... watch where the hell you're standing and running going into P2. MOVE when your timer says. There should never be 'I moved late cause I didn't expect it'. Although I guess you had mods off, so there's that.

I do have an issue with the gather up in the middle thing. Getting in melee range of the skeletons is certain death for those of us who have been getting aggro in that phase (see Nort's post about who dies) so that's a bad idea for me. Also, I think that gathering to the middle too early is also a bad idea. If you're within nuke range of Felmyst you shouldn't be out of range.

And yeah, it's a piss off that people got MCed. I don't think I'm being too nice to call people out for bad play. The fight is sufficiently complex that what you see on your screen as bad play might not be what you think. There's no reason to make people mad, AND be wrong while you're at it. That said there's little excuse for getting MCed. However, I stand behind my first remark that it's ALSO important that we can DEAL with other people's mess ups so we don't cause a chain reaction.

Pika.